Posts by Joe Grundy

29

When did the religion become a cult?

by Hermano in

am i wrong in believing it was rutherford who took the religion from strange to cult?

under russell they had some strange beliefs but strange beliefs don't make a cult.

wasn't it rutherford who established and reinforced the hierarchichal structure and demanded absolute loyalty?.

Joe Grundy

I never was a JW but have read a lot of their history on this and other sites. There are several definitions of 'cult' and it seems to be a fine line between 'wacky religions' and 'cults'.

My gut reaction is that a 'cult' imposes an inordinate degree of control over its adherents, with consequences and sanctions for those who fail to comply. JWs certainly fits that.

My first reaction to the OP's question was that in its early days, Russell's 'break away' or 'spin off' from the Millerites et al was just a 'wacky religion' started at a time and place which seemed to foster so many 'wacky religions' and that it was under Rutherford that the 'control' issue became major (possibly to keep 'his' JWs separate from the original mainstream IBSA).

Now, I'm not so sure. The more I read of Russell and the machinations of his early collaborators the more I come to the view that this was a 'cult' from the beginning.

BTW, I find it interesting how time and history tends to lend credence and respectability to wacky religions. Joseph Smith's new religion was obviously nutty (at best), Russell's pyramidology survived and flourished, and to be honest Saul/Paul's new religion based on visions is pretty wacky on any objective analysis. But they have survived, and as time and distance cloud their origins they gain (in some quarters at least) a degree of respectability. With the advent of the internet and the huge availability of information to all who wish to find it, I don't think it would be so easy to start a new wacky religion/cult now. (Edited to add: unless of course, the cult/religion proscribed independent research - ring any bells?)

293

The Natural Beauty of Your Neighborhood

by compound complex in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

one of my greatest enjoyments is a daily walk.

i see things in far greater detail than when i am driving by.

Joe Grundy

Thanks!

293

The Natural Beauty of Your Neighborhood

by compound complex in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

one of my greatest enjoyments is a daily walk.

i see things in far greater detail than when i am driving by.

Joe Grundy

I'm lucky to live in Pembrokeshire, West Wales (about 6 miles from the sea).

I don't know how to make things clickable, but this is a gallery of photos:

http://www.visitpembrokeshire.com/content.asp?id=2283

8

Cyprus District Convention

by Joe Grundy in

jw
friends

this is the report in the online edition of the cyprus mail announcing the dc (http://www.cyprus-mail.com/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovah-s-convention/20120703):.

"the district convention of jehovahs witnesses will be held this friday at the spyros kyprianou athletic centre in limassol.

the two-day convention titled safeguard your heart!

Joe Grundy

This is the report in the online edition of the Cyprus Mail announcing the DC (http://www.cyprus-mail.com/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovah-s-convention/20120703):

"THE DISTRICT Convention of Jehovah’s Witnesses will be held this Friday at the Spyros Kyprianou Athletic Centre in Limassol. The two-day convention titled “Safeguard Your Heart!” will be held over three days, ending on Sunday July 8.

According to a press release, the convention will highlight biblical references to the heart, encouraging self-scrutiny and reflection, which will amount to a three-day examination of what the convention calls “one’s own figurative heart”.

The convention programme will be presented in Greek, English and Russian and will be translated in Arabic, Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Singhalese and sign language for deaf people.

An estimated 4,000 people will attend the convention. Programme sessions start at 9.20am all three days and finish at 4.55pm on Friday and Saturday and 3.40pm on Sunday. Admission is free, and no collections will be taken."

This sentence made me laugh: "The two-day convention titled “Safeguard Your Heart!” will be held over three days ..."

I've never been a JW or been to a DC but reading reports here on JWN suggest that they are mind-numbingly boring. Well, now it's official - it's a two day event cunningly squeezed into three days. You weren't hallucinating, time really does pass slower at DCs.

44

Letter from elders to WT about Jonathan Kendrick and the WT response

by wolfman85 in

.

i don't know if these letters were posted here before , so i'm sorry if is something that all of you have seen already..

Joe Grundy

Lack of a letterhead is no problem if the WT letter is a copy from their files.

It's common office practice if you are keeping a hard copy of a letter to print two copies - one on letterhead paper to send and one on plain paper (cheaper) for the file.

52

NEWS-JW Wife Stabbed in Kingdom Hall

by Refriedtruth in

fox carolina 21deputies: wife stabbed by husband at church.

whns greenville-9 minutes agogreenville county deputies said they were called to kingdom hall of jehovah's witnesses at 1400 old spartanburg rd.

about 2:15 p.m. where they found ...http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/18848997/deputies-wife-stabbed-by-husband-at-church.

Joe Grundy

This is dreadful, horrible. My thoughts are with this poor lady.

33

Candace Conti - Preparing For The Appeal

by Joe Grundy in

no doubt, wtbts ny will appeal this to the best of their ability, and they have almost unlimited financial resources behind them.. i wish i was in a position to fund candace through the appeal, but i'm not, nor i am cognisant with california law or the general fedaral law in us.. but i was a police officer in the uk for 30 years, 10 of that as a commander of a fraud squad, member of the national working group on fraud, europol, etc.

i did spend some time in the us working with fbi on a joint case.. my point is this.

i've read through some of the court papers including depositions and the one that stuck in my mind was the dep taken from the witness who worked in bethel and was asked about 'collated data' re child abusers.

Joe Grundy

Just spoke to Candace's law firm.

The charming young lady confirmed that the appeal court will review only the material that was submitted at trial and thus there is no opportunity for re-interrogating witnesses, etc., so no, I can't be of much help. But I've left my contact details and am available if required.

Just to clarify, no I never was a dub. I was raised in the (Open) Plymouth Brethren but have been an atheist for many years.

And to repeat my offer - I am now retired but have a lot of experience in child abuse cases. I am able to be self-funding and offer any help I can to those who need it.

33

Candace Conti - Preparing For The Appeal

by Joe Grundy in

no doubt, wtbts ny will appeal this to the best of their ability, and they have almost unlimited financial resources behind them.. i wish i was in a position to fund candace through the appeal, but i'm not, nor i am cognisant with california law or the general fedaral law in us.. but i was a police officer in the uk for 30 years, 10 of that as a commander of a fraud squad, member of the national working group on fraud, europol, etc.

i did spend some time in the us working with fbi on a joint case.. my point is this.

i've read through some of the court papers including depositions and the one that stuck in my mind was the dep taken from the witness who worked in bethel and was asked about 'collated data' re child abusers.

Joe Grundy

MB: Noted.

Does anyone have a direct link to Candace' attorney, please?

33

Candace Conti - Preparing For The Appeal

by Joe Grundy in

no doubt, wtbts ny will appeal this to the best of their ability, and they have almost unlimited financial resources behind them.. i wish i was in a position to fund candace through the appeal, but i'm not, nor i am cognisant with california law or the general fedaral law in us.. but i was a police officer in the uk for 30 years, 10 of that as a commander of a fraud squad, member of the national working group on fraud, europol, etc.

i did spend some time in the us working with fbi on a joint case.. my point is this.

i've read through some of the court papers including depositions and the one that stuck in my mind was the dep taken from the witness who worked in bethel and was asked about 'collated data' re child abusers.

Joe Grundy

I'm not suggesting that Candace's lawyer was in any way deficient.

Just offering a hand, is all.

33

Candace Conti - Preparing For The Appeal

by Joe Grundy in

no doubt, wtbts ny will appeal this to the best of their ability, and they have almost unlimited financial resources behind them.. i wish i was in a position to fund candace through the appeal, but i'm not, nor i am cognisant with california law or the general fedaral law in us.. but i was a police officer in the uk for 30 years, 10 of that as a commander of a fraud squad, member of the national working group on fraud, europol, etc.

i did spend some time in the us working with fbi on a joint case.. my point is this.

i've read through some of the court papers including depositions and the one that stuck in my mind was the dep taken from the witness who worked in bethel and was asked about 'collated data' re child abusers.

Joe Grundy

sir82: The secret, the 'knack' in doing this is to 'play dumb' - get them to explain it to you as if you undertand nothing. Except you do (from research) and THEN you ask the 'beam me up scottie' questions.

Worked for me. Oh, and KISS. Juries love that.